QUESTION:

The meaning of logos and other points.

I would like to ask Mr. Heaster how he would react to the following point. First of all, if we take Jeremiah 9:24 about understanding God in context, I’m glad to see he cares about context, then we find that it is knowing the things that God is doing and that one can see by the way God acts justly something being revealed; but if we move on, I mean our Christian friend over there only mentioned one verse, but he said there were others that had the same thoughts, where the context is the same. Romans says something on this at the end of chapter 11 about how unsearchable God’s ways are. Now, surely I would appeal to you that if God is infinite and I am purely a creature then there is going to be a limit to the capacity with which I am going to be able to understand Him and you may get a little child that comes back from the edge of the water and says I’ve got the ocean in my bucket and although it’s true in one sense, in another it is far from true and the wonderful thing I see about the doctrine of the Trinity is that it is proved to me that my Bible comes from God in that it goes beyond something that can be neatly and mathematically put together in a way that is understandable within the confines of the human intellect.

MR. HEASTER:

O.K. Can I answer that?

REPLY:

There are two other points I want to make and then I will sit down. I would be glad to write to you, Sir, or hear from you as time is short. But there are two other points.

First, you kept on talking about the meaning of logos as God’s purpose. Now if you look at the times the word is spoken of, it isn’t just a purpose, it is a person.

My last comment was that Thomas when he says “my Lord and my God” and he worships him it’s not just that rarely, as Leslie says, God can be used of a normal person or that sometimes, somebody will revere or respect another, but that here you have worship and the name of God going together and so Jesus doesn’t refute it. The simplest understanding of that verse is that Jesus acknowledged that here was the true God and there are no other Gods except the Lord.

MR. HEASTER:

Thank you. Well, your first point was, as I said a repetition of what we’ve just had, that God is a mystery. Now if I may as politely as possible say that, (I don’t really consider that most of what I said in my first speech has been answered I am afraid by Mr. Everitt at all. I don’t think anything much at all has been touched on) to turn round and say it is all a mystery is a very easy get-out and Christ did say that unto the true believers “the mystery is revealed” – the revealed mystery. Now, I do accept that there is as Paul says “a mystery of Godliness” that God was manifested in the flesh and I am sorry if I give the impression that we Christadelphians think we know everything. I am not saying that anyone can fathom the mysteries of God fully as you say, in Romans 11. That is quite right. But the fact is that one can understand the basic simple truths of the word of God. That Christ was the Son of God, begotten by the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary.

Regarding the the meaning of logos and the pronouns in John 1 where it says the world was made by him, I would firstly point out that the word “by” “the world was made by him” it can mean “on account of him, through him, by reason of him”. As Romans 14:14 says “there is nothing unclean of itself”. In other words, there is nothing unclean of itself, on account of itself. Well, the fact that a personal pronoun is used, doesn’t necessarily imply that a person is being spoken of. There is, as I expect you recognize, a principle in the Scriptures of personification. In Proverbs 8 wisdom is spoken of as a woman “wisdom has builded her house, she has hewn out her seven pillars”. Now presumably neither you nor I believe there is a woman called “wisdom” up in heaven or on this earth who is doing that – no we accept that that is the principle of personification. This is what is being used about this logos here in John 1. Now one can understand that further by the fact that logos in the Greek is a masculine word and therefore it must take a masculine pronoun, in the same way as wisdom in Hebrew is a feminine word and it therefore takes a feminine pronoun. It is no proof in itself of personality. And so it is with the meaning of logos.

You then said, I was almost pleased to hear, in your third point that the worship of Christ and the name of God go together. Well, I totally agree with you. As I have been trying to say, because Christ came in the name of God, therefore he could receive worship on God’s behalf.

CHAIRMAN:

I think that although there are a lot more questions that people would like to ask, time is pressing we will have to draw a line here.

Right, now are there any questions for Mr. Everitt.